2025-08-13 Gary Sheng & Kayla Slagter Conversation Summary

Meeting Context

• Setting: Follow-up conversation after initial street encounter
• Tone: Strategic, spiritual, and deeply personal discussion about career transitions and purpose
• Key Development: Gary providing strategic counsel on documenting Kayla's expertise while exploring faith integration with social impact work
• Mutual Recognition: Both participants finding significant spiritual and intellectual resonance

Major Topics Discussed

1. Gary's Background and Journey Overview

Early Social Consciousness: Gary's awakening to social impact in college

"I think it was like a class about inequality in college 10 years ago that was the first time I had any sort of social consciousness, like my senior year."

Google Career Foundation: High-status but unfulfilling beginning

"I started my career at Google as a software engineer on Google Cloud... really the main reasoning behind me being at Google was just to have a high status, high pay job, right, and but it was, and I did fairly well there, but I didn't feel fulfilled at all."

Music and Community Building: Side passion for gathering people

"I had one of the biggest SoundCloud pages I gathered, people for parties and concerts in New York and LA from like 2015 to 2017, like a couple dozen parties and concerts."

Political Radicalization: Trump-era activism experience

"Trump's election really mobilized me in a very, like I was very alarmed at his election, and I kind of, honestly, best way to put it is I got radicalized into a hyper-simplistic, like progressive ideology of like police bad, white people bad, America bad."

Recognition of Unclean Activism: Spiritual discernment about methods

"I raised a ton of awareness for police brutality, but like it was very unclean, like what I felt like I was doing. I couldn't really fully explain why, but I just like, I got to step away."

2. Career Evolution and Discernment Pattern

Democracy Reform Phase: Civic empowerment non-profit work

"I met some people that wanted to do civic empowerment of youth... co-founded a non-profit around that, did that for three years, got, you know, status awards for that, Forbes 30 under the social impact category."

Honest Assessment of Impact: Recognizing limited actual change

"I had to admit to myself like what was actually happening, not much, honestly, and I just felt like I was padding a bunch of high schoolers resumes for college."

Crypto Exploration: Search for systemic solutions

"I found crypto. Crypto was like, whoa, maybe this could, I realized like I'm kind of looking for simplistic solutions for things, but anyways, I got really into crypto."

Ethereum Foundation Work: Collaboration with Vitalik Buterin

"got noticed by the Ethereum Foundation, and so that ended up leading to me working with Vitalik Buterin, who co-founded Ethereum, on like these like co-living gatherings."

Vatican Initiative: Digital transformation project

"then I got pulled into this conference at Vatican City because I've been friends with some people that have a lot of influence in the Catholic Church, and got pulled into spearheading like a digital transformation initiative that started to get off the ground, but then Pope Francis died."

3. Faith Journey and Spiritual Integration

Active Faith Exploration: Four-year deepening process

"also over the past only four years, I've been like actively exploring and getting deeper in my Christian faith."

Calling vs. Worldly Impact: Core spiritual question

"to what extent am I even called to like make worldly changes, right? Like at all, right? Should I just be a priest? Like, I don't know, like, I've been seriously having these thoughts."

Austin AI Bootcamp: Current chapter

"then I saw this AI coding boot camp and got in. It was all expenses paid in Austin. That's why I'm in Austin, actually. Three months, graduated top of that class."

Alpha Schools Experience: Values misalignment recognition

"then got a consulting gig for this K through 12 system private school of this like super libertarian capitalist guy, Joe Lamont... this initiative did not feel like it was rooted in the right things."

Current Exploration Phase: Seeking divine guidance

"I am exploring with a few different potential partners slash clients on going all in on something else. But also taking the time to just really clarify what I believe in."

4. Kayla's Alignment Recognition and Challenge

Values Alignment Acknowledgment: Appreciating Gary's discernment pattern

"the thing that I really appreciate about what you just shared with me is that you've never it sounds like you have not let yourself settle into a place that didn't feel aligned with you, even if you don't really know exactly what that is."

Action vs. Awareness: Distinguishing between knowing and doing

"I don't think a lot of people act on that, even if they listen and aware and are aware of it, they don't act on it."

Current Dilemma: Aligned but not challenged

"I'm at the point of like, I don't want to settle into comfort. And that's where I feel I've been similar to you for the last decade since college in mostly in the fundraising and nonprofit space. And I feel no longer stretched or pushed by it."

Impact Aspiration: Seeking next level contribution

"So I'm chasing like, okay, what's the next level of impact that I can have, bringing my talents and where I think I uniquely can contribute."

5. Privilege and Parental Context

Gary's Parental Limitations: Immigration survival context

"my parents, I don't think that they had the privilege to even ask the questions that I get to ask, because they're kind of, they're kind of in survival mode."

Kayla's Privilege Recognition: Consistent spiritual grounding

"every time that I'm in a spiral about life, I'm like, and then just add on top of this, the fact that I have the privilege to think about what my contributions are in the world."

Shared Gratitude: Recognition of opportunity to dream and act

"And I have space to like, think about it, much less dream about it, much less take steps towards it."

6. Faith Background and Theological Perspectives

Wheaton College Context: Kayla's educational foundation

"Wheaton College, that's where I went to college... I would say all of the liberal atheists would say it's like insanely conservative fundamentalist. And then all the really, really strong conservatives would say it's like insanely liberal and teaches evolution."

Faith Deconstruction Process: Personal journey description

"for me, it was like, really helpful for me actually to like deconstruct my faith. I would say the journey of me understanding my faith for myself was at that college."

Faith-Driven Good Work: Core motivation observation

"the best people that I know and the things that keep me holding on to my faith in moments of struggle is that the best people I know who are fighting for good in the world are doing it because of their faith."

Christianity Critique: Distinguishing true faith from weaponization

"And so contrary to what we see with most of Christianity right now."

7. Gary's Faith and Political Tension

White House Faith Summit: Conflicted invitation experience

"I was invited to the White House a couple months ago for a faith office summit, like a bunch of faith leaders. And initially I was like, oh, this is cool. And then I started to think about it more."

Faith Weaponization Recognition: Political manipulation concerns

"just how faith is used to oppress so much. Yeah. And just consolidate political power and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. Like all these things that are very worldly and does not feel in the spirit, right?"

Wrong Ways vs. Right Way: Spiritual discernment challenge

"basically realized there's like 99, you know, just figure a speechless say 99 ways to do faith almost like the wrong way. And then like one way to maybe do it like the right way where it's not like secretly self-centered."

8. Theological Dialogue and Mutual Understanding

Kayla's Pushback: God's expansiveness beyond culture

"if I can push back, at least from my perspective as someone, and I don't think this is what you're saying, but as someone who for so long was chasing the one right way for me, my realization is God is bigger than that."

Cultural Limitations Recognition: Critique of white-dominated Christianity

"And there's no way, there's just no way that one culture, especially a white rooted in white supremacy in America culture of Christianity has figured out that one right way."

Gary's Clarification: Focus on weaponization rather than exclusivity

"I think we, there's a, there's the better thing to say is there's a lot of ways to weaponize faith for very not godly things. And yes, I think it takes humility to discern what that is and to see it in yourself."

Sanctification Process: Shared understanding of spiritual journey

"And that's the journey of, what is it, sanctification? Like that is the process. That's what we're called into, you know?"

9. Strategic Counsel: Documentation and Expertise

Third-Party Validation: Repeated advice pattern

"That is, okay. So you're the third person to say this to me. I have a feeling this is something that I need to hear and I'm somehow not getting in my head."

Gary's Core Recommendation: Making expertise legible

"documenting what your, your way of thinking, your expertise around everything. Because I just suspect that you have a lot of expertise that I think would be impressive to people that might want to bring you on as their expert."

Method Refinement Value: Teaching to improve understanding

"making the truth legible, right? And so you're kind of making that expertise legible for yourself helps you find sort of errors in, or ways you can improve on that, right? Because maybe you think that you like basically learning how to teach your, your method really refines that method."

Competitive Advantage: Documentation as de-risking tool

"imagine, you know, you're looking at two different people that have similar skills... but you've written like a whole wiki on your method, right?... just would de-risk it so much for someone that wants to know if they want, if they should invest, empower you."

10. Case Study Methodology and Implementation

Non-Obvious Expertise: Value of documented experience

"none of this is obvious to people that aren't doing it, living it, breathing it every day, right? But they may like, even just having that corpus of case studies and that documenting your way."

AI-Assisted Documentation: Practical implementation strategy

"You can, you can do like a chat GPT or grok voice mode. And you can like, but with a pre-prompting of like, I'm writing on this topic, just keep asking me questions until you run out of questions."

Transcription and Processing: Efficient workflow description

"And then you transcribe it or, or actually, with grok and chat GPT automatically transcribed actually. So you can literally just copy and paste the whole transcript."

Wiki Format Over Publication: Focus on utility over status

"I think worrying about like a publication strategy can distract you from just getting, getting the information out into like a wiki type format."

11. Publication Strategy and Audience Considerations

Kayla's Publication Inquiry: Understanding distribution approaches

"Do you pursue, like, getting published or like sharing your stuff? How do you, how do you think about that?"

Gary's Practical Approach: Utility-focused rather than status-driven

"So I have a blog, I have a blog too, like you, it seems like. And but it just depends on what the, it just depends on the person, the circumstance and the goals."

Employment Application Context: Strategic sharing rather than broadcasting

"as you're applying, you're like, by the way, you know, you may be wondering what my method is. I've documented this in detail with a bunch of case studies."

Case Study Importance: Specificity over generalities

"And those case studies are really important, because otherwise, it can just feel very, because I've taken like courses on different skill sets. And my biggest feedback tends to be like, wish there's more case studies."

12. Ongoing Documentation Practice

Regular Documentation Habit: Sustainable long-term approach

"in general, I think this is a good practice just to document your work, right? Just to never have to be like, Oh, like moving forward, let's say you just get into a regular habit of documenting your work."

Incremental Updates: Efficient maintenance strategy

"You updating it becomes a lot easier than just like, Oh, one day, you know, the first the first time you document it, it'll take a long time, right? But then like, updating it will be like less, oh, yeah, another case study, just adding it to the corpus."

Self-Discovery Process: Understanding personal interests through documentation

"I also like the idea that it is, it'll be an interesting way to see what comes to mind to document. Like, yes, there's so many things, like, as I'm thinking about what I would want to document, so much that's coming to mind right now is like, management and, and dealing with people within organizations."

13. Referral Limitations and Documentation Value

Beyond Referral Dependency: Expanding opportunity access

"if you if you don't document this, then you're in a lot of ways, you're you're relying on referrals from past like employers that are like, oh, she's great. But if you're great, why would they even want you to leave?"

Network Expansion: Reaching beyond existing connections

"it just gives you more ability to kind of, again, de-risk it for a potential employer that's not somehow connected to your current employer."

Gary's Review Offer: Supportive feedback commitment

"I would be very curious to review whatever, like you send me a draft. I'm happy to be candid about what I think about it."

14. Gary's Current Exploration and Faith Integration

Fundamental Questions: Core theological and practical exploration

"in a not resume builder way, I'm working on, I've been reflecting a lot on I'm genuine, genuinely outside of the career is what how did God design the universe? And what exactly does he want us to do?"

Everything Downstream: Theological foundation for all decisions

"And so kind of everything is downstream from that kind of."

Christian Technology Vision: Faith-integrated innovation exploration

"we're exploring, like, essentially writing a book about technology, how Christians should build technology that God would endorse, essentially."

Ongoing Discernment: Humble exploration rather than presumption

"And it's not that I have a full idea of what that is, but it's like a ongoing exploration that we are exploring whether we want to commit to that."

15. Worldview and Calling Integration

God's Will vs. Personal Will: Fundamental orientation shift

"really, well, I mean, you're gonna, my worldview is pretty simple. But it all depends on understanding what I believe God wants for me. And that is, requires a lot of humility, right?... it's as little as possible about me imposing my will."

Evolving Understanding: Dynamic rather than static calling

"And it's evolved over time, based on what I believe."

Passion for Expert Support: Current ministry focus

"ironically, I'm very passionate about helping people that are experts in some aspect that is relevant to making the world better in a way that feels compatible with a future that I believe God would be happy about."

Monetization Uncertainty: Faith over financial planning

"and the monetization part is like, big question mark for me."

16. Philanthropy and Values Alignment Challenges

Kayla's Core Dilemma: Principal-advisor relationship tensions

"that's my biggest hesitation about the world of philanthropy, is that... if there is a principal who is giving away money, that is their values. And so, what is the role of the person who is supporting them in that?"

Complexity of Alignment: Nuanced decision-making challenges

"And it's not as easy as, like, telling them what to do, and it's not as easy as just letting the person do whatever they want. And the line between that is so, so the whole aligning yourself with people with the same values."

Paper vs. Reality: Implementation challenges

"on paper, it sounds really, really, really good and easy, or not even easy, but like possible. But then there's just so many nuances within those things."

17. Gut Instinct and Divine Guidance

Gary's Discernment Experience: Trust in spiritual leading

"this is why, you know, my, I feel like I've, well, I'm gonna try to be humble. My gut has been wrong before, but I generally have seen cool things happen when I trust my gut, when I'm not operating from a place of pride."

Wealth Stewardship Interest: Personal relevance to Kayla's work

"reflecting, well, incidentally, stewardship of wealth in a way that's good has been a big question for me, personally. So, that's why I think it's good to have more thoughtful people that are contributing."

Beyond Bystander Status: Active engagement importance

"that are not just, like, bystanders, right? But they're deeply enmeshed in the practical realities of that."

18. Truth-Telling and Audience Considerations

Self-Censorship Warning: Publication pressure effects

"When you go public, you self-censor more, right? And so, you're, like, I think a lot of what happens with people when they're writing, they're, like, they get really stifled because they don't follow a good order of operations."

Proper Order of Operations: Truth first, audience second

"number one, just be honest with what you actually feel for yourself, right?... Thinking too much about who will resonate with a piece of truth dilutes the truth, right?"

Private Sharing Value: Most work remains confidential

"that's why, quite literally, 95% of what I write, I share with only one or two other people, and I trust them to give me real feedback."

Contextualization Strategy: Criticism within larger framework

"if you are going to critique, let's say, NGO sector, it's helpful to do it in a bigger corpus of work, so it's contextualized, so, you know, you're clearly not looking like a bystander or a critic."

19. Relief and Permission

Kayla's Relief: Freedom from performance pressure

"that is really relieving to hear, because I actually had zero desire to put any of this publicly. I only, I felt like I should, because that's the context that was brought up to me before, of, like, oh, you should be, like, positioning yourself as a thought leader."

No Interest in Status: Authentic motivation recognition

"but I have just, um, I don't even know why, I just have no interest in doing that, but it's helpful to hear, not like I needed permission, but it is helpful for you to say, it can just be for yourself."

Lost Perspective Recovery: Work vs. positioning distinction

"and I think that's what I've lost in all of this, is that so much of the advice I get is in the context of, like, building up yourself, or building up your resume, and not the, like, hey, just do the work that matters."

Faith-Based Approach: Trust over control

"and then trust that it will lead you to the next step, or whatever, and that's what's hard for me to do, is not know what the next step is, but just do it in faith that it will lead somewhere."

20. Spiritual Resonance and Future Connection

Spiritual Fulfillment: Deep soul-level connection

"this was very helpful, both practically, but in a bigger sense, it felt like this itched a part of my soul that I really needed."

Mutual Appreciation: Recognition of valuable dialogue

"so thank you so much for the conversation, and for your openness, I really, really appreciate it."

Future Collaboration: Commitment to ongoing relationship

"And yeah, would love to stay in touch, will 90 percent probably send you something, giving myself 10 percent grace."

Openness to Continued Dialogue: Invitation for future connection

"if there's anything that comes up that sparks you about this conversation, would love to hear it, and I really enjoy talking with you."

Key Insights and Themes

Faith Integration with Social Impact

Sophisticated dialogue demonstrating mature Christian perspectives on worldly engagement, with both participants wrestling with authentic faith expression versus cultural Christianity.

Career Discernment Through Spiritual Lens

Gary's pattern of not settling for misaligned opportunities resonates with Kayla's current challenge of being aligned but not growing, with both seeking divine guidance over worldly success metrics.

Documentation as Strategic Asset

Comprehensive discussion of expertise documentation as competitive advantage, particularly valuable for specialized knowledge workers seeking values-aligned opportunities.

Truth-Telling vs. Performance

Important distinction between authentic documentation for personal clarity versus performative thought leadership, with emphasis on private sharing and trusted feedback over public positioning.

Privilege and Purpose Recognition

Shared awareness of generational advantages creating responsibility for meaningful contribution, with immigrant family context adding perspective on opportunity stewardship.

Spiritual Accountability and Fellowship

Recognition of rare opportunity for deep spiritual and professional dialogue, with both participants finding significant value in faith-integrated strategic thinking.

Strategic Implications

Expertise Documentation Priority

Kayla's repeated receipt of documentation advice from multiple sources suggests divine confirmation of strategic direction, with Gary providing practical implementation framework.

Values-Based Career Transition

Both participants modeling approach to career decisions based on spiritual discernment rather than conventional success metrics, demonstrating alternative framework for professional growth.

Faith-Driven Professional Development

Conversation illustrates sophisticated integration of Christian worldview with practical strategic thinking, offering model for kingdom-oriented career development.

Network Building Through Authentic Connection

Relationship formation based on shared values and spiritual resonance rather than transactional networking, suggesting more sustainable approach to professional relationship building.

Notable Quotes

On Not Settling for Misalignment:

"you have not let yourself settle into a place that didn't feel aligned with you, even if you don't really know exactly what that is... I don't think a lot of people act on that, even if they listen and aware and are aware of it."

On Faith and Social Impact:

"the best people I know who are fighting for good in the world are doing it because of their faith. And so contrary to what we see with most of Christianity right now."

On Divine Timing and Guidance:

"my faith is just trusting that if I follow what I believe is right, and I don't settle that I will be led to the right place."

On Documentation Value:

"none of this is obvious to people that aren't doing it, living it, breathing it every day... even just having that corpus of case studies and that documenting your way, just would de-risk it so much."

On Truth-Telling Priority:

"number one, just be honest with what you actually feel for yourself... Thinking too much about who will resonate with a piece of truth dilutes the truth."

On Spiritual Resonance:

"this was very helpful, both practically, but in a bigger sense, it felt like this itched a part of my soul that I really needed."

On Faith vs. Performance:

"so much of the advice I get is in the context of, like, building up yourself... and not the, like, hey, just do the work that matters, and then trust that it will lead you to the next step."

On God's Expansiveness:

"God is bigger than that. And there's no way that one culture, especially a white rooted in white supremacy in America culture of Christianity has figured out that one right way."

On Worldview Integration:

"everything is downstream from that... what how did God design the universe? And what exactly does he want us to do?"

On Privilege and Responsibility:

"the fact that I have the privilege to think about what my contributions are in the world. And I have space to like, think about it, much less dream about it, much less take steps towards it."

Next Steps and Future Potential

Documentation Project Development

• Kayla likely to begin systematic documentation of philanthropic methodologies
• Gary committed to providing candid feedback on draft materials
• Implementation through AI-assisted transcription and wiki-style organization

Ongoing Strategic Dialogue

• Both participants expressing strong interest in continued connection
• Mutual recognition of valuable spiritual and professional fellowship
• Potential for ongoing strategic counsel relationship

Faith-Driven Professional Network

• Connection represents model for values-based professional relationships
• Both positioned to contribute to Christian philanthropy and social impact discourse
• Potential collaboration on faith-integrated strategic thinking

This conversation represents significant mutual recognition of shared values, strategic thinking capabilities, and spiritual maturity, with both participants finding rare combination of practical wisdom and faith integration that suggests ongoing relationship of significant mutual benefit.