External Transcript Summary: Gary Sheng & Joshua Bingaman - Faith Journey Discussion

Date: September 18, 2025 Location: Texas Coffee Works, Bastrop, Texas & Joshua's Real Estate Office Participants: Gary Sheng (@gary-sheng.md), Joshua Bingaman Duration: Extended conversation over coffee and office visit Context: Follow-up meeting after initial connection at Zach Levi's ranch event

Executive Summary

This transcript captures an in-depth conversation between Gary Sheng and Joshua Bingaman, exploring themes of faith, religious trauma, authentic Christianity, business transitions, and personal discernment. The discussion reveals Joshua's complex religious background marked by family involvement in charismatic revival movements and subsequent trauma, contrasted with Gary's current spiritual exploration and search for authentic faith community. Both men are navigating the tension between institutional Christianity and genuine spiritual pursuit.

Key Themes

1. Faith Journey and Spiritual Discernment

Gary's Current Season:

• Spent August "basically in the Bible and reading book recommendations"
• Theme: "discerning what God's calling is for me"
• Exploring healing miracles through Pastor Delmar Coward Jr. in Liberty, Texas
• Considering documentary/streaming proposal about the pastor's healing ministry
• Being "recruited by a bunch of different camps in Christianity"

Gary's Faith Influences:

• Kanye West's Sunday Service: "I was like... This sounds amazing. These people are just so in flow"
• Grandmother's faith testimony during family FaceTime: "Believe in God. She did... That will never leave my mind"
• Meeting authentic believers: "Oh, okay. This is not just purely... Not everyone... Is just doing it because they like wearing... They think it's cool to wear a cross"

2. Religious Trauma and Family Breakdown

Joshua's Childhood Experience:

• Parents heavily involved in charismatic revival movements from age 5
• Constant travel to healing services: "My family... Would go where it was... Like revival places? They like chased it... Oklahoma City, and Canada, and Florida"
• Family suffered: "I was kind of robbed of a childhood or a family... I'd sit in the back of all these meetings with my CD player"
• Multiple suicides in their religious community: "Four or five families around... Five kids killed themselves... From that group"

Current Family Estrangement:

• Parents and brother are estranged due to religious differences
• Brother became Orthodox, parents went "further into... Humanism. Femalism. In the church"
• Joshua's perspective: "If Jesus was here... You wouldn't be in a good spot. Would you think he would want you guys to not dine together?"

3. Authentic Faith vs. Religious Performance

Joshua's Discernment:

• "When it's real, or when somebody comes to my office, they're not necessarily a believer, but God's chosen them, and they're in a process of it"
• On Gary: "This guy's goofy, and he just found a treasure. And you're calling me to tell me about a treasure"
• Contrasts Gary with typical religious people: "You're not doing it because you're on the crest of a wave to save. You're not in it for life... You're seeking life"

Red Flags of Religious Performance:

• Joshua gets triggered by formal church settings due to trauma
• Recognizes when people are "thirsty" and pushing religious agenda vs. genuine truth-seeking
• Values simplicity over complex religious ritual

4. Business and Life Transitions

Gary's Professional Uncertainty:

• Consulting ended with Alpha School/Joe Liemandt: "they don't have their system set up to onboard me right now"
• Tulsa manufacturing opportunity fell through due to operational readiness issues
• Living situation became temporary: "I'd already let go of my lease"
• Sees this as divine invitation: "invitation from God to be like, okay, you're getting super fast-paced and... caught up in a lot of hype cycles"

Joshua's Business Evolution:

• Founded HELM Boots, Progress Coffee, now in commercial real estate
• Stepped away from day-to-day restaurant/bar operations: "I can't. I don't want to have anything to do with bars"
• Found balance in Bastrop: "I never slept or ate or had any sort of balance until we moved up here"
• Real estate focus: "My goal is just to keep selling stuff downtown to cool businesses"

5. Community and Relationships

Bastrop as Community Hub:

• Joshua actively bringing Austin businesses to Bastrop
• Strong network of believers in his workplace: "I get in these settings where I'm now surrounded by her and her husband... it's never been like that in my life"
• Random NYC connection at Texas Coffee Works: demonstrates small-world connectivity

Marriage and Family Stability:

• Joshua's 25-year marriage to Sarah as foundation
• Daughter Ruth at Texas Military Institute boarding school
• Emphasis on family stability after his own childhood disruption

Significant Quotes

On Faith and Truth-Seeking

Gary: "The quality of your heart, I imagine, is what Jesus cares most about. And that's... It's hard to protect. It's hard to nurture."

Joshua: "We're supposed to be changed. And we're supposed to morph and mold and meld... like dough, like to bake bread, God's doing that to us all the time."

Gary: "I think that the Christian life should model... replicable, infinite patterns of life. And that should not... the trauma and suicide that you saw is actually exactly opposite of what the promise is, if we are to be the best representatives of Jesus."

On Religious Trauma and Institutional Christianity

Joshua: "The devil used the church to hurt people... And that's sad."

Gary: "It's a very sad thing when the truth... When institutions that reject partial truths or a lot of truths can turn people away completely from the truth."

Joshua: "I wouldn't be a lawyer without that [faith]... What robbed our family of normality... Is what has now broken the family."

On Authentic vs. Performative Faith

Joshua: "When you're seeking truth, I think you're always... [open to God's molding]... when you're not seeking truth, you're like, I'm out. Like, God, I don't want to be in the maker's hands."

Gary: "I really want to do... what would be most rewarding? If God is the truth... you can... call your own bullshit about if you're doing something because it's purely from God or it's out of some other motivation."

On Discernment and Foundation

Gary: "Now you think about... Thinking about Kanye right. He did not have a good foundation. Spiritual. Religious. Didn't have a good community around him."

Joshua: "I just think we're supposed to be changed... But however God's... manipulating us... You accept it? Like, God do that with you or you without? You're like, I'm out."

Key People Mentioned

Primary Figures

• Pastor Delmar Coward Jr. - Liberty, Texas pastor performing healing miracles
• Brenda - Woman who introduced Gary to the Liberty pastor through prayer revelation
• Sarah Bingaman - Joshua's wife, runs practice helping people "break chains of religiosity"

Influential Thinkers/Authors

• Francis Schaeffer - Major influence on both men, author of "How Should We Then Live"
• Stephen Garber - Author of "The Fabric of Faithfulness," connected to Joshua
• Zach Levi - Actor who hosted the ranch event where they met

Business/Professional Connections

• Joe Liemandt - Alpha School owner, Gary's former consulting client
• Nick - Joshua's real estate brokerage partner in Bastrop
• Various Austin business owners - Moving operations to Bastrop area

Theological and Philosophical Insights

On Signs, Wonders, and Miracles

Gary's Perspective: "Signs, wonders, and miracles are important. But they have to be contextualized as in the main important thing, which is that God wants us to have abundant life... if you make an idol out of gifts of the Holy Spirit in a way that destroy... your family, which when I think about the value of signs, wonders, and miracles... it helps people realize that we have a beautiful and supernatural world."

On Religious Institutionalism

Both men express wariness of religious institutions while maintaining strong faith. They distinguish between:

• Authentic faith: Truth-seeking, heart transformation, genuine community
• Religious performance: Status-seeking, tribal identity, institutional power

On Divine Providence and Timing

The conversation itself serves as an example of divine orchestration - two men at different stages of faith journey finding each other at precisely the right moment for mutual encouragement and growth.

Business and Professional Insights

Entrepreneurial Lessons

• Sustainability over growth: Joshua's transition from high-stress multi-business operations to focused, sustainable work
• Community impact: Both men value businesses that serve and strengthen local communities
• Foundation before expansion: Importance of solid operational foundation before scaling

Market Opportunities

• Bastrop development: Growing corridor between Austin and smaller Texas towns
• Faith-based content: Potential for authentic spiritual storytelling in media
• Community-centered businesses: Demand for authentic, locally-rooted enterprises

Personal Development Themes

Discernment and Decision-Making

• Slowing down for clarity: Gary's forced pause leading to spiritual exploration
• Learning from others' mistakes: Both men studying family patterns to make better choices
• Community wisdom: Importance of trusted advisors and authentic relationships

Healing and Growth

• Processing trauma: Joshua's journey from religious trauma to authentic faith
• Foundation building: Both men emphasizing spiritual and relational foundation over rapid achievement
• Integration: Bringing together faith, family, and professional calling

Future Implications

Potential Collaborations

• Documentary project: Gary's interest in the Liberty, Texas healing ministry
• Community development: Joshua's Bastrop real estate expertise and Gary's strategic thinking
• Faith-based initiatives: Both men positioned to contribute to authentic Christian community building

Ongoing Relationship

The conversation establishes a foundation for ongoing friendship and mutual support in faith journey, with planned October reunion and continued dialogue about authentic Christian living.

Conclusion

This transcript reveals two men at critical junctures in their faith and professional lives, finding common ground in their pursuit of authentic Christianity over religious performance. Their conversation demonstrates the power of honest dialogue about faith, trauma, and calling, while highlighting the importance of community and discernment in spiritual growth. The relationship appears positioned to be mutually beneficial for both personal development and potential collaborative opportunities.