Call Summary: Atheist and Jew Building Christian Media Empire with Gary as Face

Overview

A remarkable strategic meeting where Nathan Brown (atheist) revealed his massive Christian Facebook empire generating tens of thousands monthly, proposing collaboration with Gary Sheng (Christian) as the face of a new Christian app venture, orchestrated by Justin Horwitz (Jewish) who sees political influence opportunity. The conversation reveals the fascinating intersection of data-driven marketing, religious content, and strategic positioning in the digital faith space.

Key Topics Discussed

Nathan's Christian Media Origin Story

• The Catalyst: Friend Vic (Swedenborg follower) faced $130,000 medical debt after uninsured gallbladder surgery
• Vic's Journey: Conservative Christian → devout atheist → found Jesus through Emanuel Swedenborg teachings
• Swedenborg Context: 18th century scientist claiming to visit heaven/hell, predicted Stockholm fire 300 miles away "to the day"
• Failed Organization: Vic worked for Swedenborg org but they rejected his successful Facebook strategies as "too clickbaity"
• Nathan's Intervention: "You don't need an organization to have a Christian Facebook page. I can build you one"
• Initial Success: Even with small page, Vic making $40/hour posting content (50-50 split with Nathan)
• Scaling Discovery: Achieved page likes for two-tenths of a penny, enabling massive growth

Business Model and Revenue Details

• Peak Performance: Nathan personally keeping ~$50,000/month (June before algorithm changes)
• Current Revenue: Down to $15,000-20,000/month due to Facebook issues
• Ad Spend: Scaled from $10/day to $5,000-8,000/month on growth ads
• Page Portfolio:
  • Walking with Jesus (formerly Walking Witness) - Right-wing audience
  • God's Grace - Testing long-form colored background posts
  • Daily Devotion - Email acquisition testing
  • Multiple pages for sister, mother, other friends
• Demonetization Issues: 4-5 pages demonetized over 2 years, usually wins appeals
• Major Loss: Page making $25-30K/month demonetized for false "inauthentic engagement"
• Algorithm Volatility: Earnings dropped 80-90% overnight multiple times

The Walking with Jesus Revelation

• Political Discovery: Poll showing 100% Trump support for third term
• Justin's Reaction: "Holy shit, I didn't realize these were right layers"
• Infiltration Opportunity: Justin excited about accessing "America First" movement
• Nathan's Approach: "I generally encourage page managers to stay away from the most egregious right-wing stuff"
• Content Strategy: Discovered boomer Christian women respond to pain→reassurance format
• Organic Growth: Achieved 3,000 followers in one day with long-form posts

Strategic Philosophy and Approach

• Nathan's Philosophy: "I want to go where there's the greatest competition, because that's where the greatest money is"
• No Ideology: "I don't have an ideology that I'm trying to push" - purely data-driven
• Algorithm vs. Ads: Prefers "ad hacking" over "algorithm hacking" for stability
• Alex Hormozi Model: Focus on 7-day cash conversion cycle for unlimited scaling
• Ethical Framework: "I'm much more of an ethicist than I am a moralist"
  • Example: "It's morally wrong to lie, but ethically right to lie to a Nazi"
• Vision: World where "people behave like Christ, but where science is the foundation of what is true"

Christian App Collaboration Vision

• Gary's Prototype: Shared scripture-based affirmations app he uses daily
• Sample Affirmations:
  • "I'm in the right time, the right time, doing the right thing, and I'm blessed"
  • "I hear your voice every day and I follow you"
  • "No evil shall touch me, nor any plague come near my dwelling place"
• Nathan's Response: "This is what the audience wants"
• App Strategy:
  • Compete with top Christian apps (Halo, etc.)
  • Focus on daily devotionals, affirmations, prayers
  • Build email list first ($0.20 per email in tests)
  • Eventually create "Christian social media" with referral mechanisms
• Monetization Options: Premium subscriptions, advertising, or both
• Gary as Face: "I don't think I'm going to find someone else that I would want to represent the future"

Content Strategy Discussion

• Short-Form Leverage: Use Facebook reels to build Gary's profile
• Justin's Vision: Record 30 videos monthly, 15-second inspirational messages
• Long-Form Power: Convert long prayer posts to videos
• Cross-Platform: Use Facebook fame to drive YouTube, Substack followers
• Nathan's Insight: "The audience wants affirmational posts... helping people feel better by placing trust in God"
• Balancing Act: Building audience vs. promoting actual Christ-like behavior

Justin's Personal Crisis

• Mother's Health: Hemiplegia requiring bone marrow transplant for remission
• Father's Behavior: Kicked out of hospital, won't apologize to security
• Family Conflict: "This isn't about you, man" - frustration with father making it about himself
• Alternative Healing: Parents tried everything for his seizure disorder (Catholic priests, Korean Chundosunbap)
• Current Resistance: Family resisting non-conventional approaches - "that mindset is very dangerous"
• Gary's Offer: Would fund trip for healing pastor to come pray
• Pastor's Credentials: Healed many cancers, improved Gary's eyesight, helped Jewish rabbi find peace before death
• Justin's Openness: "I think it's the greatest idea... if for no other reason, just like, I tried"

Philosophical and Theological Discussion

• Nathan's Critique: Christians focus on "saved by faith alone" vs. acting like Jesus
• Behavior vs. Belief: "Do they act like Jesus? Are they Christ-like?"
• Gary's Position: Believes in avoiding divisive topics (homosexuality, "one true religion")
• Focus on Encouragement: Gary sends daily voice notes to 20+ friends
• Nathan's Pragmatism: "I wanna figure out ways to use this to generate revenue, find ways to collaborate and find ways to do good"
• Christians' Generosity: Nathan notes Christians "far more philanthropic than secular atheist agnostics"

Austin Connection Discovery

• Geographic Proximity: Nathan's mom lives 14 minutes from Gary in Austin
• Location Details: Mother on Monterey Oaks Boulevard, Gary near William Cannon
• Future Meeting: Plans to meet in person next Austin visit

Key Quotes

Nathan's Quotes

• "I'm the atheist making money from Christian Facebook pages"
• "If you don't have ideological constraints... it's a lot easier to just do what the algorithm rewards"
• "I want to go where there's the greatest competition, because that's where the greatest money is"
• "I'm much more of an ethicist than I am a moralist"
• "I would love to live in a world that is a compassionate world where people behave like Christ"
• "I learned selling in the 'how to make money online' space... if you get good in that space, you can get good in any space"
• "I'm tired of algorithm hacking. I just want to do ad hacking"

Justin's Quotes

• "Nobody can ever find out about this" (joking about the Christian pages)
• "I want that page" (about Walking with Jesus)
• "They're making a huge mistake being over-reliant on Facebook"
• "Dude, media's everything. It's the transmission of ideas and messages"
• "The Jew who put you as face of Christianity in America, it was me"
• "Life is short. Things change over time" (about mother's illness)

Gary's Quotes

• "I believe in the power of affirmations and faith declarations"
• "This is the embodiment, right? How would I have ever predicted progressive politics would have any overlap with building a Christian app?"
• "Jesus has a sense of humor that he's using Nathan to do this"
• "I don't think I'm going to find someone else that I would want to represent the future"
• "Numbers matter. People want to know how many followers you have before they listen to you"

Strategic Decisions and Action Items

• App Development: Build Christian affirmations/devotional app with Gary as face
• Initial Focus: Research top Christian apps on App Store for competitive analysis
• Content Creation: Gary to record 30 monthly videos for Facebook reels
• Monetization Testing: Start with email acquisition, test premium vs. ad models
• Platform Strategy: Use Facebook to drive off-platform assets (email, app, YouTube)
• Collaboration Structure: Nathan handles growth/data, Gary as face/content, Justin for strategy
• Austin Meeting: Nathan and Gary to meet in person on next visit
• Healing Connection: Gary to potentially arrange pastor visit for Justin's mother

Business Model Insights

• Facebook Vulnerability: Content monetization program highly unstable
• The Shift: Moving from algorithm dependency to paid acquisition
• 7-Day Cycle: Goal is customer acquisition, delivery, and payment within 7 days
• Creative as Constraint: With cash flow solved, only limitation is creative production
• Referral Power: Ultimate goal is word-of-mouth growth like major social platforms
• Demographic Reality: "Right-wing conservative Christians" vs. "atheist liberals"

Philosophical Tensions and Resolutions

• Nathan's Position: Atheist who wants Christians to act like Christ with scientific foundation
• Gary's Position: Christian focused on encouragement and eternal truth
• Justin's Position: Jewish pragmatist seeing political influence opportunity
• Common Ground: Making money while potentially doing good
• Compromise: Nathan willing to promote content not perfectly aligned with values for ethical outcomes
• Agreement: Focus on what works for audience while slipping in positive messages

Future Vision

• Short-Term: Launch app, build Gary's profile, generate revenue
• Medium-Term: Create Christian media ecosystem across platforms
• Long-Term: Potentially build "Christian social media" with viral growth
• Political Angle: Access to "America First" movement for influence
• Gary's Political Future: "You guys would totally be the team for me to win a Republican seat in Texas in four years"