Call Summary: Christian Order / Secret Society Vision Development

Overview

Profound late-night brainstorming session where Gary shared news about "Mikey" wanting to fund him to create a Christian "Freemason-type society" for high-agency believers. Tim provided extraordinary theological and historical analysis, helping develop the vision for a meta-denominational order focused on uniting Christianity and "converting kings." Both explored naming conventions (Order of the Holy Ghost), historical precedents, and the mission statement for this new initiative.

Key Topics Discussed

Mikey's Funding Proposal

• Society Engineering Mission: Gary revealed someone named "Mikey" wants to fund him to gather "very high agency Christians" for society engineering
• Framing: "He basically wants to fund Gary to find more Garys" - Tim's summary: "Because Gary is the ultimate Gary. He's going to be able to find all the other Garys"
• Meta-Gary Concept: Gary as curator/finder of high-agency Christian builders: "We want to fund Gary to find more Garys"
• Mikey's Background: "He funds a lot of political activism. He was funding it when he was more of an atheist. And now he wants to fund more Christian aligned activism"
• The Vision: Create "non-Edge City Christ City" - a Christian version of the futurist pop-up city/network state concept
• Gary's Confirmation: When Gary asked if Mikey wanted him to create "a Christian Freemason," Mikey "basically was like, yes"

Tim's Analysis of Gary's Unique Positioning

• Truth-Seeking Method: "You have a method. You have truth management. And you have a whole thesis around how this should be approached"
• Meta-Denominational: "You are over denominational... You are meta-denominational"
• Philosophically Grounded: "You're philosophically well grounded in practical Christianity... You have deliberated enough to understand what is important to seek, AKA Truth"
• Non-Denominational Strategy: "You understand what is not important, which is the fighting between denominations. Because there are more important enemies"
• Tim's Framing: "You are not rushing to affiliate yourself with specific doctrine. You see the power of each specific doctrine and belief system"

Historical Analysis of Christian Orders

• Purpose-Built Orders: Tim articulated that orders were "purpose built to answer a temporally relevant mission of the time"
• Order of the Dragon: "Was established to protect the Christian world from the Muslim Ottoman Empire that was invading Europe"
• Knights Hospitaller: Started helping sick pilgrims then expanded to military due to Islamic expansion
• Modern Parallel: "Now it's not coming from the east. Now it's coming from within, from less obvious sources"
• Tim's Insight: "The Christian orders historically have been created, have been established for a certain mission that was relevant at the time"

Mission Statement Development

• Converting Kings Strategy: Tim articulated the core strategy: "Converting kings. How can it happen? Through having the behind the scenes networks of highly influential people"
• Historical Precedent: "This is how Christianity spread in many ways. This is how it spread to Russia... to Hungary and to so many countries... to Rome as well"
• Modern Kings: Politicians, major businessmen with capital, innovators, "everybody who matters on a world scale"
• Tim's Summary: "We are basically doing the same now"

Why Orders Appeal to Men

• Catholic Orders: Gary referenced conversation with Zach about attraction to Catholicism: "They have all these interesting orders. I can be a Knight of Columbus, Knight of Malta"
• Post-Woke Era: "It's a perfect time to do something like that. Because the era of woke is, like, basically completely done"
• Tim's Analysis: Orders appeal to "the Christian male in general. Attractive to men. Increase Christianity to men who feel purposeless in the society affected by 10 or 20 years of woke weird. Sinful culture"
• Aesthetic Appeal: "Every Christian, especially young Christian, just looking at the previous orders, the Knights Templar, the way they dressed, the mission that they had, it's like super inspiring"

Naming Brainstorm

• Order Framework: Tim insisted: "It has to be the order... It has to be meaningful. It has to be future related"
• Holy Ghost Concept: Gary proposed "Holy Ghost" - Tim immediately connected: "Because it's meta. The Holy Ghost is what is around us... It's everywhere"
• Trans-Denominational Fit: "It doesn't care about what? Whether you're charismatic, Catholic, cessationist, whatever"
• Historical Precedent: Discovered Order of the Holy Ghost existed (founded 1180) - Gary: "I feel like I can just revive it"
• Other Candidates: "Chosen Few," "Holy Fire"
• Knight Alternative: Gary asked "Is there like a different word than knight?" - left open for exploration

Structure and Character

• Secretive Nature: Gary: "Very secretive, I think. And it's like a secret Thiel Fellowship type thing"
• Incubator Model: "There'll be like great companies that get incubated from it. But no one knows who the support structure really was"
• All Men Consideration: Gary: "Is it an all men thing? Which, actually, if you think about it, it's a perfect time to do something like that"
• Edge City Style Events: "Futuristic, highly curated people, Edge City and Zuzalu type events"
• Maturity Development: Gary on secrecy as growth: "Getting better at not telling everyone everything is just part of maturity and long term strategy and lowering of ego"

Divine Timing Recognition

• Year-End Nudge: Gary: "This nudging for me was planted two weeks before the end of the year... So that I can start the year of 2026 strong"
• Travis Context: Travis hasn't paid Gary yet - "it is kind of helpful... because I don't need to be like if he doesn't have the money to fund Applied AI Society"
• Parallel Paths: Tim clarified: "It's more of a question whether it's going to be your main capacity or the secondary capacity. Which is going to be determined by the funding"

Catholic Church Assessment

• Bureaucracy Concerns: Gary visited a Catholic church: "There's like no way that it can be my main thing to help freaking Catholic church... Everything moves so slow with the Catholic church"
• Strategic Affiliation: "There's like a weird clout of being like loosely affiliated with like high level church stuff. But in terms of day to day projects, it's just too much bureaucracy"

Tim's Existential Enthusiasm

• Life Project Framework: "This is the most fun possible life project. I'm calling it a life project for a reason because historically it was a life project for people who became Knights Templar"
• Best Possible Work: "This is the best thing we can be building right now... What can I even do? Other than build a new Christian order, what else?"
• Gratitude: "I'm grateful for this. I'm grateful for you. I'm grateful for this chance. I'm grateful for even this conversation. Thank God"
• Funding Optimism: "It's probably going to be well funded. It's probably going to be really fun, dude"

Key Quotes

On Gary's Unique Positioning:

• Tim: "You're philosophically well grounded in practical Christianity... You have deliberated enough to understand what is important to seek, AKA Truth"
• Tim: "You are not rushing to affiliate yourself with specific doctrine. You see the power of each specific doctrine and belief system"
• Tim: "Maybe the mission of the order... is to unite Christianity in the modern world"

On Historical Orders:

• Tim: "The Christian orders historically have been created, have been established for a certain mission that was relevant at the time"
• Tim: "The Order of the Dragon specifically was established to protect the Christian world from the Muslim Ottoman Empire"
• Tim: "There is clearly a profound lack and also the perfect storm for this new meta Christian metagelical order to appear"

On Converting Kings:

• Tim: "Converting kings. How can it happen? Through having the behind the scenes networks of highly influential people"
• Tim: "When the Roman emperor became Christian, he made Christianity his state religion and skyrocketed the spread of Christianity"
• Tim: "We are basically doing the same now"

On Modern Mission:

• Tim: "Christianity is divided. Christianity is hurt by the years of atheistic culture that's culminated in many ways"
• Tim: "We are under attack. But now it's not coming from the east. Now it's coming from within, from less obvious sources"
• Gary: "The growth is in basically whatever the fuck I'm doing" (on trans-denominational approach)

On the Holy Ghost Name:

• Gary: "Because it's meta. The Holy Ghost is what is around us... It's everywhere"
• Tim: "It doesn't care about what? Whether you're charismatic, Catholic, cessationist, whatever"

On Tim's Enthusiasm:

• Tim: "What can I even do? Other than build a new Christian order, what else?"
• Tim: "This is the best thing we can be building right now. This is the most fun possible life project"
• Gary: "Why are you so smart, bro?" Tim: "I'm inspired. I love you, man"

On Secrecy and Maturity:

• Gary: "Getting better at not telling everyone everything is just part of maturity and long term strategy and lowering of ego"
• Gary: "Pride is what makes you want to say shit all the time. Oh, I did this, I did that. I know this person"
• Tim: "You are more ready than ever to take on this responsibility"

Action Items / Takeaways

• Gary to continue brainstorming name (Order of the Holy Ghost leading candidate)
• Tim to "sleep on it" and dream about the concept
• Research historical Christian orders more deeply
• Determine if all-men structure appropriate
• Gary entering 2026 with clarity on this "society engineering" thread
• Tim committed to helping build - sees it as potential life project
• Consider Edge City/Zuzalu-style events as gathering mechanism
• Gary to develop thesis on meta-denominational unity

Special Context

Tim's Research on Christian Orders

Tim researched naming conventions of historical orders during the call, generating table of orders with their purposes and name meanings. Key insight: orders were named for location (Malta, Teutonic), purpose (Hospital, Temple), or spiritual concept (Holy Ghost, Holy Spirit).

Paul-Timothy Parallel Deepened

This conversation further reinforced the biblical Paul-Timothy dynamic in their relationship, with Tim now potentially becoming co-architect of a new Christian order alongside Gary as apostolic leader.