Wabi Ecosystem Role Discussion: Gary Sheng + Blas Moros

Overview

Exploratory conversation about Gary potentially joining Wabi's ecosystem team as Blas's first GTM hire. Blas joined Wabi approximately one month prior as the sole go-to-market person on an 11-person team. The conversation revealed Wabi just closed a $50M Series A at $625M valuation (after publicly announcing $20M pre-seed), and both parties demonstrated strong alignment on strategy, values, and working style. The discussion focused on creating "golden case studies" through hands-on creator support, building sample apps, and bridging community needs with product/engineering capabilities.

Key Topics Discussed

Wabi's Explosive Growth and Funding

Major Revelation:

Blas: "Totally between us, Gary, we announced our 20 million dollar pre-seed, which again, is just like the most stupid thing ever. Like, what is a pre-seed anymore? But we just closed our next round. 50 on 6.25. So it's done."

Context:

• $50M Series A at $625M post-money valuation just closed
• Public announcement was only $20M "pre-seed"
• Blas describes timing as "right place, right time, right idea"
• Strong Twitter buzz: "We were everywhere for a week"
• Product resonates immediately with users: "Your average person gets into Wabi, and it's like, oh, fuck, I can actually make something fun, something pretty, something useful"

Team Structure:

• 11 total people: 6 engineers, 3 designers, 1 GTM (Blas), 1 founder (Eugenia Kuyda)
• Close to landing another founding iOS engineer (biggest bottleneck)
• Hiring philosophy: "Let's get the sickest 20, 30 people in the world and not 200"
• Blas is sole person handling all GTM, community, ecosystem, Discord

Gary's Career Clarity and AI Focus

Gary's Strategic Positioning:

"I really do want to be surrounding myself with people and opportunities that allow me to be right in the middle of the AI... I want to work on a product that's going to be huge that serves all kinds of people. And what I do with the wealth that I earn from helping that be as big as possible is kind of just up to me in my private life."

Key Decision Framework:

• Just returned from Rome AI conference during Marc Andreessen controversy
• Spent past few months gaining clarity on where to allocate time
• Rejected purely faith-focused work in favor of building huge AI products that serve everyone
• Used Hobby Lobby as model: Closed on Sundays (values-driven) but serves all kinds of people
• Making short list of AI companies that democratize AI benefits for non-developers

Discovery Timing:

Gary: "I didn't know that you joined. I found out about it. Then the next day I saw that you were... Yeah, literally."

Blas: "Oh, no way. Oh, that's hilarious."

• Gary discovered Wabi independently, then learned Blas had just joined
• Santiago Montoya had previously connected them in July
• Both see timing as potentially perfect alignment

The "Last Mile Problem" Analysis

Gary's Insight from Thousands of Hours on Cursor:

Gary identified critical infrastructure gaps even with AI-assisted coding:

1. Email notification infrastructure
2. Push notification systems
3. Streaks and gamification logic - "Best practices that you can kind of like add, almost like a plugin"
4. App Store/Play Store submission - "Such hell... there's so many, like, secrets and, like, $200 app developer subscriptions"
5. API key management - "15 API keys for any meaningful app that you have to remember"
6. User acquisition and distribution

Gary: "My initial naive thought once Cursor came on the scene was like, oh, my God, like, this is democratization. Then I'm like, oh, there's actually, like, a huge last mile problem. That's not even last mile. It's like three fourths of the marathon."

Blas's Agreement:

"Even just, like, the command line IDE thing, you just turn off 99.9% of people. Like, you're just not gonna get an average person to, like, try Cursor in that way. It's the wrong interface. That's kind of like the thing we're going after is, like, we need a different interface to just be able to give your average person sort of access to this godlike technology."

Wabi's Platform Strategy

Apple Relationship and Distribution Model:

Blas: "We've worked really closely with Apple from day one just because, like, there's, like, a platform risk if, like, Apple just says, like, oh, like, this is not okay, like, that's like an existential risk."

Key Strategic Decisions:

• No App Store publishing: "We are not going to enable publishing to app store or play store. Everything lives within Wabi."
• Rationale: "Publishing through the App Store is horrific. Your average person is just going to give up right away."
• Competitive positioning: Live Code App and Roark "will cater to some audience... but it's not going to change how people interact with software. It's not going to be like a thing that's in the culture. It'll be something that's great for that technical 1%."

Platform Benefits Vision:

Blas: "The benefit of being a platform here is bananas. If you roll forward, what this could mean where your average person, you, Gary, you never have to think about another API key or connection or integration ever again. We build this at the platform level, and instantly you get scalability, you get reliability, you get security, you get privacy, you get all of that built in."

Example Use Cases:

• "What happens if you connect my Apple health data with my calendar and then create a playlist based on those two things that I can wake up to every morning? Sick. We have all those integrations. We do that for you right away."
• No more "Here's API key" moments that make average users "zone out"

Gary's Data Vault Vision

Expanding Platform Thinking:

Gary: "You can imagine, like a data vault that a user has that then different apps can plug into that data to have more and more useful agentic utilities. If you connect your Google Calendar, if you connect just other sources of data, that allow for almost like different interfaces that people create."

Strategic Value:

• Data portability across mini-apps within Wabi
• Apps can specify data plugin requirements
• User invests time once, utility compounds across multiple apps
• Wabi as trusted context/truth hub: "That different apps can plug into"

Core Insight:

"The utility of a particular mini app has a lot to do with what data it can access."

The "Golden Case Studies" Strategy

Gary's Core Approach (His ideal job description):

Gary: "Whatever it takes to get to golden case studies. Build really detailed relationships with target app creator type people. Get on calls with them, build CIA files on them, make them feel really supported."

The CIA Files Concept:

• Do things that really don't scale
• Build extremely detailed relationships with early creators
• Hand-hold them through the entire creation process
• Support them until they build something genuinely valuable
• Create case studies proving creators "wouldn't build otherwise"

Success Criteria for Golden Case Studies:

"You can do this with Wabi 50 times faster than you could do in terms of getting your first hundred users or thousand users on like a Replit."

The PRD Problem:

Gary: "A lot of the best apps will be closer to thought through with a PRD type, especially early on. Helping them create the PRD for the app."

• Not just "come up with two line prompt"
• Teaching creators to think through product requirements
• Working with them on brainstorming what they're passionate about
• If technical blockers exist, representing creator needs to engineering team

Feedback Loop to Product:

"If it's not possible in the current iteration of Wabi, talking to the engineering team, what would it take for this? Like, clearly, if this got users, we'd be happy with this kind of app."

Blas's Vision for Gary's Role

The "Amorphous Blob" Bridge:

Blas: "I see you potentially as the bridge between community or creators, product and engineering, like some amorphous blob that can kind of communicate effectively with each of those people."

Full-Stack Cross-Functional Role:

"I'm such a big believer in people who are kind of full stack and they can be full stacked in different ways... a designer who can engineer vice versa. And in your case, I see you potentially as the bridge between community or creators, product and engineering."

Proposed Activities:

1. "Come Build With Me" Office Hours:

   "There could be some really cool cadence or ritual that we could do either within Discord or Twitter spaces or something. But it's like, come build with me. And it's just an unscalable thing. We invite some people into it. We can do office hours type stuff, help people get to that magic moment."

2. Indie Hacker Stable:

   "I'm starting to build out this team of just incredibly talented indie hackers, app builders... that could... own different verticals and just be like, hey, go ahead."

   • Weekly golden showcases
   • "I spent 20 minutes building this app or two hours... it took me 30 edits to get to an app that does 1, 2, 3. Come try it out."
   • Publish, remix, share workflow

3. DevRel-Style Sample Apps:

   Gary: "This is what DevRel people do, right? They'll create sample apps that illustrate the power of a particular tech stack."

   Blas: "Dude, I love that so much."

4. Technical Writing and Thought Leadership:

   Blas: "I think you're a really good writer. Maybe there's a potential for... longer think pieces. From the philosophical to... our vision and why this matters and how personal software could change how people interact with software... to very specific dev world type stuff."

   • Blog posts from philosophical to technical
   • "Here's the limits of where Wabi is today and here's where we can go"
   • Maybe technical evaluations

Gary as "Blas's Force Multiplier"

Gary's Self-Assessment:

Gary: "The shorthand would be just Blas's force multiplier."

Why This Matters to Blas:

Blas: "I am wearing all those hats between community and product and growth and engineering. But it's just not, like, feasible. And to have you kind of in that way would be, you know, I think, a huge unlock in a bunch of different ways."

Freeing Blas for Strategic Work:

Gary: "I just think I can free you up to work on the miscellaneous strategic work that you, as one of the early leaders, need. There's so many hats you need to wear, right? And everything that you said, it just fits. Is right up my alley."

Gary's Unique Preparation:

"I've just worn a lot of different hats that triangulate to Wabi, whatever the name is, you know, head of ecosystem, whatever."

• Community building experience
• Developer education and support
• Technical writing and documentation
• Sample app creation
• Product feedback and strategic thinking

Mentorship and Professional Growth

Gary's Desire for Mature Leadership:

Gary: "I've chased a lot of maybe some fleeting hype cycles before, but I've learned a lot from that... through these experiences, not necessarily surrounded by the best, most mature leaders. I really seek that. I really want... You have a track record of being very professional and contributing to almost like institution building. And I would trust your mentorship in how to contribute to a team that can quickly grow."

Context on Gary's Journey:

• Wants to be in growing spaces (AI requirement)
• But values professional, mature leadership
• Sees Blas's Peter Coffman training and operational excellence as valuable mentorship source
• Desires to learn how to contribute to institutional building vs. just chasing hype

Blas's Response:

Blas: "That means a lot. Thank you. I don't know if it's deserved, but I will take the compliment happily."

Pre-Existing Relationship Advantage

Blas's Perspective:

Blas: "The potential of working with you is super exciting. I love when you get to know someone outside of the context of an interview. Like, I know you, regardless, you know what I mean? Which is very nice."

Trust Foundation:

• Santiago Montoya introduction and endorsement in July
• Prior conversation about Alpha Schools, Austin community, manufacturing
• Gary had prepared detailed notes on Wabi independently
• Blas had read "all of Gary's writing"
• Mutual respect established before job discussion

Hiring Philosophy Alignment:

Blas: "Both Eugenia and I, in the past have made the mistake of raising money and then hiring too many people. So it's very much a, like, let's get the sickest 20, 30 people in the world and not 200."

Gary's Alpha Reference:

Gary: "You mean you don't want a 75 person marketing team like Alpha? Where the marketing sync is 56 people, and you don't know what anyone's doing."

Blas: "No, no, I think we want to try to avoid that ideally."

Role Design Philosophy

Blas's Opening Question:

Blas: "What's the ideal scenario for you? What would you do? If you could just design your perfect job, what would you be doing?"

Gary's Response Framework:

• Start with golden case studies goal
• Work backwards to "whatever it takes"
• Emphasis on doing unscalable things that matter
• Entrepreneurial "figure it out" mindset
• Bridge role between multiple functions

Collaborative Role Building:

Blas: "Let's build the skeleton of this role between tonight and tomorrow."

Next Steps Agreed:

1. Gary drafts role skeleton document by evening
2. Follow-up call 10:30am Eastern November 13
3. Discussion of:
   • Role specifics and responsibilities
   • Timeline for joining
   • Compensation expectations
   • Team integration plan

Timeline Flexibility:

Blas: "If we get to that tomorrow, great. If not, we'll just keep talking about it."

Key Quotes

On Wabi's Product-Market Fit

Blas: "Your average person gets into Wabi, and it's like, oh, fuck, I can actually make something fun, something pretty, something useful. And we just did a really good job building the hype on Twitter."

On Cursor's Limitations

Gary: "My initial naive thought once Cursor came on the scene was like, oh, my God, like, this is democratization. Then I'm like, oh, there's actually, like, a huge last mile problem. That's not even last mile. It's like three fourths of the marathon."

On Platform Strategy

Blas: "You never have to think about another API key or connection or integration ever again. We build this at the platform level, and instantly you get scalability, you get reliability, you get security, you get privacy."

On Gary's Value Proposition

Gary: "Whatever it takes to get to golden case studies. Build really detailed relationships with target app creator type people. Get on calls with them, build CIA files on them, make them feel really supported."

On Role Vision

Blas: "I see you potentially as the bridge between community or creators, product and engineering, like some amorphous blob that can kind of communicate effectively with each of those people."

On Career Focus

Gary: "I want to work on a product that's going to be huge that serves all kinds of people. And what I do with the wealth that I earn from helping that be as big as possible is kind of just up to me in my private life."

On Mentorship

Gary: "You have a track record of being very professional and contributing to almost like institution building. And I would trust your mentorship in how to contribute to a team that can quickly grow."

On Pre-Existing Relationship

Blas: "I love when you get to know someone outside of the context of an interview. Like, I know you, regardless, which is very nice."

Action Items

Gary's Deliverables

• Draft role skeleton document by evening November 12
• Prepare compensation expectations discussion
• Document case studies of previous community/education work
• Organize examples of DevRel-style work

Blas's Commitments

• Send calendar invite for 10:30am Eastern November 13
• Give thought to role structure and team integration
• Prepare discussion of timeline and compensation parameters
• Consider how Gary transitions from current commitments

Mutual Exploration

• Flesh out "Come Build With Me" office hours concept
• Define indie hacker stable strategy and initial targets
• Identify first potential golden case study creators
• Clarify blog post strategy and content calendar

Strategic Context

Wabi's Market Opportunity

The Democratization Gap:

• Cursor/Replit serve technical 1% who can handle command line
• 99.9% of people need different interface for "godlike technology"
• Current tools (Live Code App, Roark) won't achieve cultural penetration
• Wabi positioned to be "thing that's in the culture" not just technical tool

Platform Advantages:

• All infrastructure handled centrally (authentication, AI models, Apple Health, etc.)
• No App Store friction or gatekeeping
• Social discovery and remixing built in
• Lower barrier to creation than any competitor

Gary's Strategic Fit

Unique Qualifications:

1. Deep Cursor experience: Thousands of hours understanding what breaks for average users
2. Community building: Track record of creator education and support
3. Technical writing: Can bridge philosophical and technical content
4. DevRel mindset: Understands sample app creation and developer advocacy
5. Product thinking: Can represent creator needs to engineering
6. Entrepreneurial: "Whatever it takes" mentality for unscalable early work

Cultural Alignment:

• Values mature, professional leadership over hype
• Wants to democratize AI benefits for non-developers
• Comfortable with faith-informed personal life while building universal products
• Relationship-first approach to professional collaboration
• Willing to do unglamorous work that creates real value

Potential Concerns (Unspoken)

For Gary:

• Very early stage (11 people)
• Blas is only GTM person currently (single point of failure risk)
• Platform risk with Apple relationship
• Competition from well-funded alternatives
• User retention questions (novelty vs. sustained utility)

For Blas/Wabi:

• Gary exploring multiple opportunities simultaneously
• Compensation expectations for senior role
• Integration into extremely lean team
• Timeline to productivity given learning curve
• Faith integration in secular AI company context

Relationship Dynamics

Trust Foundation

• Santiago Montoya's introduction and endorsement
• Four months between initial connection and role discussion
• Blas familiar with Gary's writing and thinking
• Gary respects Blas's Peter Coffman training and operational excellence
• Both value professional, institution-building approach

Complementary Strengths

• Blas: Operational excellence, systems thinking, strategic leadership
• Gary: Technical depth, community building, creator education, writing
• Shared: Low ego, collaborative mindset, "figure it out" entrepreneurialism

Communication Style

• Direct and honest (Blas immediately shared confidential funding info)
• Mutual respect and authentic excitement
• Comfortable with ambiguity and co-creation
• Professional but warm relationship dynamics

Competitive Landscape Implications

Wabi's Positioning vs. Competitors:

• Cursor/Windsurf: Too technical, command-line focused, serves 1%
• Replit/Live Code/Roark: Better than Cursor but still requires too much technical knowledge
• ChatGPT/Poe: No integrated hosting, distribution, or social layer
• Wabi: Integrated creation + hosting + distribution + social discovery

The "Culture" Thesis:

Blas: "It's not going to be like a thing that's in the culture. It'll be something that's great for that technical 1%."

Wabi's bet: Become culturally relevant by making software creation accessible to the 99%, not just incrementally easier for the 1%.

Future Implications

If Gary Joins

• Wabi gains experienced ecosystem builder at critical early stage
• Blas freed up for strategic/operational leadership
• Golden case study strategy accelerates product-market fit discovery
• DevRel approach establishes creator education best practices
• Blog/content strategy builds thought leadership platform

If Gary Doesn't Join

• Blas remains solo GTM person (unsustainable)
• Risk of slower ecosystem development
• Potential miss on "right person at right time" opportunity
• Gary pursues alternative AI opportunities (Anthropic DevRel, DeepTrack, others)

Strategic Questions for Follow-Up

1. What does Wabi's path to $1B+ outcome actually look like?
2. How sustainable is Eugenia's leadership given Replika experience?
3. What's the actual user retention data beyond Twitter hype?
4. How does Wabi monetize without ads or app store revenue share?
5. Can the platform support genuinely sophisticated apps or just novelties?

Conclusion

This conversation represented a potential inflection point for both Gary's career trajectory and Wabi's ecosystem development. The mutual excitement, strategic alignment, and pre-existing trust created strong foundation for collaboration. Gary's "whatever it takes" approach to golden case studies aligned perfectly with Blas's need for an entrepreneurial force multiplier. The follow-up discussion on November 13 will determine whether this alignment translates into actual partnership.

Most Telling Moment:

Gary: "The shorthand would be just Blas's force multiplier."

Blas: "Amazing. That'd be great, dude. So much fun. Thank you again."

Both parties left the conversation energized and committed to rapid follow-up, suggesting high likelihood of successful negotiation if compensation and timeline align.