Tim Dort-Golts and Gary Sheng: Ministry Calling and Vocational Discernment

Context

Extended two-day conversation between Tim Dort-Golts (in France) and Gary Sheng exploring Gary's vocational crisis, ministry calling, theological development, and major shift in perspective on antisemitism and Israel. Tim serves as mentor and spiritual advisor while dealing with his own health challenges.

October 19, 2025 Conversation

Antisemitism and Historical Revelation

Tim's Historical Teaching

• Tim educated Gary about Roman-Jewish history: "They actually renamed Judea into Palestina... And they did it exactly after... The biggest revolt"
• Explained Roman hatred: "They definitely wanted to take the Jew... they definitely hated"
• Emphasized Bible as historical document with proven elements beyond direct mentions

Gary's Spiritual Transformation on Jewish Question

• Gary's humble admission: "It takes a lot of humility to say that you've been spiritually manipulated by... that you are demonized. The spirit of antisemitism has haunted my soul"
• Tim's response recognizing Gary's pattern: "You changed your mind. I bet it's not fucking easy"
• Gary watched teaching video that shifted perspective, then examined his own heart

Gary's Brother's Practical Advice on Work

Bivocational Ministry Model

• Brother's counsel to Gary: "You can always get a job. And even if the job is not... a God related job. You can do the God stuff outside of the work"
• Gary's struggle: "I'm just someone that has a hard time doing something he doesn't really care about"
• Recognition that most Christians don't like their jobs but do ministry outside work

Gary's Unique Calling vs Normal Path

• Gary: "You also know I'm not trying to just do Christianity the normal way. Which also sounds arrogant and sounds ludicrous"
• Comparison to startup mentality: "I want my life to be my startup... You can't point to just a ton of examples of this pattern working out"
• Wrestling with being misunderstood: "I just have to accept the pain of being misunderstood"

Gary's Ministry Vision and Calling

Core Calling Statement

• Gary: "I certainly feel called to show the world what a good... Christian leadership that teaches the truth of the Bible well, and also heals people"
• "I feel called to shine light on a good way of helping people... to illuminate the way of fire"
• Distinction between marketplace ministry and full-time ministry

Practical Exploration Needs

• Gary planning to practice laying hands on people: "I just need to try... get my hands dirty"
• Comparison to approaching girls in college: "Just need to get my reps"
• Recognition of need for Holy Spirit baptism and practical experience

Gary's Critique of Prosperity Gospel

Ankit the Prosperity Preacher Analysis

• Gary's 90/10 observation: "literally 90% of what he says feels super spot on... But then he just always brings it back to... if you give money in the service tonight, You will receive crazy miracle"
• Specific false promises: "God spoke to me. And we're going to see supernatural debt cancellation"
• Problem with formula Christianity: "The problem is when you're making the scripture into, like, a formula"

God's Irrevocable Gifts Doctrine

• Gary's understanding that spiritual gifts remain even when misused: "God doesn't take it back. So even if Ankit's like a super scammer now... that's just the game"
• Creates need for extreme discernment in evaluating Christian leaders
• Gary: "Part of the game of life that God created is extreme discernment is needed"

Gary's Financial Independence Philosophy

Against Dependency

• Gary's conviction: "I don't think I'm meant to be dependent on the charity of anyone. I just don't know if that's in line with the spirit of who I am"
• Distinction between genuine support and "scraps" from others
• Desire for bivocational model to avoid "begging people for my existence"

October 20, 2025 Conversation

Tim's Health and Energy Update

Physical Condition

• Tim's doctor visit confirmed no pneumonia but minor lung infection
• Using traditional remedies: breathing steam from boiling water, Russian potato steam remedy
• Feeling more energetic despite lingering cough
• Went to church for first time in a while

Gary's Vocational Crisis Deepens

Current Situation Assessment

• Gary: "I've been here before... history doesn't repeat, but it rhymes"
• Looking at job openings, considering bivocational approach
• Wrestling with feeling "useless" when comparing to steady career paths

Three Default Options for Gary

1. Apply for jobs (leaning toward this)
2. Start a startup that "probably won't work"
3. Accept "crumbs" from Brenda's web3 marketing opportunities

Polymarket Consideration

• Gary's brother knows Polymarket founder
• Moral wrestling: "Is Polymarket a casino?"
• Best argument for it: truth discovery through markets
• Gary recognizing need to update resume and public profile

AI and Decision-Making Philosophy

Tim's Warning Against Utilitarian Logic

• Tim's insight to Gary: "Don't let AI decide what my calling is"
• Gary's response: "A lot of people make their life decisions like AIs... given zero context"
• AI would give utilitarian answer: "Christians are supposed to win souls. So just win souls"
• Need for Holy Spirit input vs pure logic

Tim's Prayer and Discernment Counsel

• Tim's advice: "Pray a lot to discern if going all in on ministry is gonna be your thing"
• Recognition of 1-2 month runway for Gary to experiment and discern
• Not rushing into decisions despite family pressure

Gary's Unique Ministry Vision

"First Crypto Pastor" Concept

• Gary: "Being like the first crypto pastor... something that seems so ridiculous, but only I could do it"
• Tim's caution about reputation challenges
• Need to think through carefully to avoid "grifter coin" association

Church of the Future

• Gary: "I do have a sense that I'm called to create like a new... Church of the Future type of entity"
• Timeline uncertainty but clear vision
• Emphasis on teaching truth and healing

Gary's Update on Hien Nguyen

Extreme Brokenness Witnessed

• Hien homeless for two months, living in "scariest place"
• Mental health crisis: "not slept for multiple days. And pissed his pants... couldn't move because it was in public"
• Gary only friend providing support: "I'm his only friend that's come through for him"

Quantum Soul Mapping Discussion

• Hien talking 98% of conversation about "mapping the soul with quantum"
• Processing emotions from "evil girl" through AI interactions
• Clear signs of AI-induced thought patterns or possible psychosis

Success and Brokenness Patterns

Wealthy but Miserable Examples

• Joe Liemandt: miserable
• Mark: paranoid
• Lael: being sued, kids hate him, cheating on wife
• Hien: brilliant but homeless and mentally ill

Gary's Recognition

• "I keep working with terrible people. Or people that are extremely broken"
• Tim's insight: "Maybe that's the cost of being in the proverbial well for the wicked"
• Lessons about success: "Do I want billions? Probably yes. Do I want to be Hien? Probably not"

Theological Developments

Dragons and Prophecy Film Response

• Both agreed October 7 attacks were terrible
• Film felt very pro-Israel politically
• First use of AI in documentary noted
• Jonathan Cahn's parallels between biblical stories and current events

Gary's Jewish Prophecy Understanding

• Gary: "I greatly overlooked prophecies about the Jewish people in the Bible... just how much they would be attacked and hated"
• Recognition of protestors as "misled... Generally into hating Jews"
• Tim asking about Gary's transformation from anti-support position

Tim's Mentorship and Support

Practical Timeline Wisdom

• "You're actually in a pretty good position because you shouldn't actually rush to make this decision"
• Recognition of 1-2 months for Gary to experiment with laying hands, prayer, discernment
• Encouragement about Gary's job prospects with his resume

Bivocational Perspective Shift

• Reframe from necessity to ministry support: "The more money the more you can invest into Christian stuff"
• Building family as Christian value
• Self-funding ministry travel and work

Prayer Emphasis

• "First and foremost, ask God for it"
• Warning against assuming God wants specific path without clear Holy Spirit confirmation
• Distinguishing between "most godly activity" logically vs actual calling

Gary's Book Project with Brenda

Christian AI Guide

• Writing book on how "Christian parents and leaders should use AI"
• More of a guide than money-maker
• Part of ongoing collaboration with Brenda

Key Quotes

On Gary's Calling

• Gary: "I feel called to illuminate the way of fire"
• "I want my life to be my startup"

On Prosperity Gospel

• Gary: "Truth is really important... If you're going to be a new leader in christendom... What's the point if you're just going to keep doing suspect financial schemes?"

On Discernment

• Gary: "Part of the game of life that God created is extreme discernment is needed"

On AI Decision-Making

• Tim: "Don't let AI decide what my calling is"
• Gary: "A lot of people make their life decisions like AIs"

On Transformation

• Gary: "It takes a lot of humility to say that you've been spiritually manipulated"

On Success

• Gary: "Success is not it... Do I want billions? Probably yes. Do I want to be Hien? Probably not"

Analysis

This conversation captures Gary at a critical vocational and spiritual crossroads, with Tim serving as wise mentor and spiritual advisor. Gary's transformation regarding antisemitism shows intellectual humility and willingness to change deeply held views when confronted with truth. The tension between bivocational work and full-time ministry reflects Gary's deeper struggle about identity, calling, and financial independence. Tim provides balanced mentorship, encouraging both practical planning and spiritual discernment without rushing decisions. Gary's critique of prosperity gospel and recognition of brokenness in successful people demonstrates mature spiritual discernment developing alongside vocational uncertainty. Tim's role as educator (Roman history), spiritual guide (prayer emphasis), and practical advisor (timeline perspective) showcases the depth of their spiritual brotherhood.